March 1, 2017 at 5:11 am #963
Hi again. I had read all the info on this site but was elsewhere at that time and here I only have phone inet access and when trying to reread this info only get error 404 page not found. I do recall reading the lengthy discourse on radar but did expect our premier fighter station at only 45/50nm may have been more accurately read by a trained operator. The discrepancy in final location leaves open a can of worms and the deposed position by Sydney, which I had previously discounted, could well be viable and yes even the Mt George valley sightings. I wish you all luck with the various searching but do remember that at the end of the day when all the probabilities have been exhausted then the improbable must apply.
The innocents in this tragic event are the passengers whose trust in the pilot his aircraft and our system fell short and I also read where the initial search was terminated after 10 days. I guess the powers that be had not read of the 1937 Stinson accident on the Lamington Plateau, a similar event where 2 survivors were found by a private searcher after 11 days (a third survivor died in an attempt to get help).March 1, 2017 at 10:02 am #964
I have been having the same problem, every time I try to download a researsh document or PDF I get an error message, I thought it was just my settings on my laptop but it happens on my phone as well.
Glen, can the tech’s you use on the site let us know what we are doing wrong?
StevejayMarch 6, 2017 at 2:55 am #965
Hi all – I have previously given my thoughts on accident site so decided to sit down and trace flight back from first radar identity point using the real known wind effect on the aircraft ground speed. This produced a much different result to what I had originally envisioned and provides reasons as to why ADF was all over the place and why time to reach the Craven reporting point took so long and ETA was increased – of course the real Craven was not even in the picture but the pilot was instead being led astray by a malfunctioning DI probably using heading bug and 2axis autopilot. I have drawn a chart but can’t get pic of it to upload so will wait til Glenn advises.March 6, 2017 at 10:04 am #966
Referred to techs.
CheersMarch 6, 2017 at 10:17 am #967
Understanding the work environment, equipment and situation, I do not believe a more accurate fix was required initially. All discussed in detail elsewhere on this site.
Deposition final fix and Mt George: no I do not believe this fix supports Mt George. But there may be other supporting factors.
Stinson vs. VH-MDX: many similarities and very different in other ways. But how long should search resources be committed for? Until found? If we did that we would have no emergency response for current call outs. Even we cannot put too many resources into MDX.
Improbable: yes we like the improbable. We have a most probable area to guide most resources but have and will continue to apply resources to more quirky areas. We have reviewed a number of aircraft accidents in the area and elsewhere and it is interesting how some aircraft end up away from dead reckoned tracks determined from radar fixes. Always in our thoughts.
CheersMarch 6, 2017 at 10:22 am #968
Also note you do not need to be logged in to download documents from this site.March 6, 2017 at 10:36 am #969
Hi Glen was looking to upload pic but wouldn’t happen for me. Must give wry smile though 239 people in sea all dead and unrecoverable a few hundred million dollars over a few years (MH370) vs 5 people on land fate not known 10 days!March 6, 2017 at 3:28 pm #970
As stated previously I have referred the issue to techs so we need to wait out.
Searches: It was not just 10 days. NSW Police coordinated a large search a few weeks after when the weather was more favourable.
Also as stated previously, searches are conducted by aviation accident investigation authorities for the sole aim of gaining information to prevent future accidents and incidents.
In the case of MH370, available information obviously does not satisfy this aim so the search has continued. In the case of VH-MDX the radio communications recordings along with other information offers a reasonably clear insight into accident causation.March 7, 2017 at 12:34 am #971
Sorry for the broken download links, we have moved to a new server with CDN and it caused a couple of issues. Links should be fixed now. Let me or Glen know if you have further issues.
GeoffMarch 7, 2017 at 12:36 am #972
The initial search is for the sole purpose of finding the aircraft and any survivors then later the how and why are addressed.March 7, 2017 at 12:40 am #973March 7, 2017 at 3:49 am #974
Obviously the purpose of the initial search is to locate survivors! But I think it was fair of the DoT to cancel the DETRESFA when they did based on chance of survival and danger to search teams. I cannot emphasise the last point enough. A Polair Jetranger suffered delaminated rotor blades from search operations.
The initial search was large scale and significant resources were used: it would be hard to argue against this. Defence and civil aircraft were involved, ground search teams from many organisations for used, F-111 photography and infra red surveys, helo’s contouring many valleys at 200’AGL, request for use of Landsat imagery, consideration of magnetometer use etc. Maybe the only criticism is the methodology in which some information was obtained and confirmed.
After the initial search there was no reason for DoT to locate the aircraft as there was sufficient information to suggest likely causes: so safety outcomes substantially achieved. There needs to be a decision made somewhere.
After this, the search becomes a recovery operation. And that’s why the Police took over from DoT although DoT did volunteer some personnel for liaison over the years.The follow up search also involved many different organisations in large numbers.March 7, 2017 at 6:59 am #975
I can see why you clarified this: ‘..searches are conducted by aviation accident investigation authorities for…’:
it should be ‘safety investigations’ instead of ‘searches’. Mixing of terms and discussions.
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